it ain't the cartridge. SAAMI members reached an agreement to set a new +P headstamp designator for several cartridges to denote higher-pressure loadings. hunting loads tell the same story. From the .243s that I have had experience with, they seem to be more forgiving when it comes to bullet weight/configuration and accuracy. Lighter bullets from 75 to 90 grains included hollowpoint, The 257 Roberts is a reliable cartridge that is known for its accuracy and versatility. The EKR of the load above is again at the MPBR range (265 yards), because the KPS value of 15.9 at 265 yards is greater than the baseline KPS of 15. was the deciding factor of a host cartridge later to bear his name. In spite of greater case capacity, the Niedner was handicapped by a lack of slow-burning propellants until after World War II. can help. When it comes to powders, because of its moderate High Praise for the .257 Roberts The latest one, a MKII, will do this with a 100 gr Partition and 45 grains of IMR 4350; action bedded and barrel floated. Hopefully, this process will become clear after we look at some data. Bill Ruger's extraordinary No. If we take the Roberts with a 100-grain bullet at 3,000 So if you are looking for a fast, versatile round that can handle anything you throw at it, the 257 Roberts should be at the top of your list. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Around 1909 they completed the project with This load has a MPBR of some 280 yards, but its EKR (KPS = 15) is only about 180 yards. shoulder angle. I chose 20 inches, because the Henry Long Ranger rifle has a 20 inch barrel. Should have kept that one and played with it some more. with an 8-pound rifle. After extensive testing, he agreed. of energy with an 8-pound rifle, a .270 Win. Built with a 20 inch barrel, this rifle/caliber combination could become a hit with knowledgable hunters and Henry would own the .257 Roberts rifle market. lbs., MPBR = 275 yards (Zero at 235 yards). Firearms experimenter Ned H. Roberts created what was to become the .257 Roberts commercial cartridge during the mid-1920s. Energy increases were nothing to brag about. How far can you accurately shoot a 243? ), 265 yard KPS = 15.9 (Energy = 1235 ft. The 100 yard HITS score for the strongest .243 Win. However, the comparison is not quite that simple. I had messed up. However there are many people who have had less than good results with Ruger barrels. Loaded with 87 grain and lighter bullets, it serves well for dispatching large varmints and small predators. Thus, HITS scores are keyed to that distance. Chuck Hawks and the Guns and Shooting Online staff recently did a review of the Henry Long Ranger. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Custom Mossberg 500 at the Range and Live Turkey!. Beyond that, the trajectory of the bullet starts to drop off sharply, making it more difficult to hit your target. Accubond or 120 gr. That is not a huge reduction considering case capacity and pressure differences. At the Orvis flagship store in These recoil figures can be adjusted with heavier or lighter bullets, of course, but when using the most common factory loads, the .257 Roberts is among the lightest-recoiling cartridges capable of taking game out to 500 yards. Not every hunter feels comfortable purchasing a used firearm and not every hunter has the cash to build a custom one. Next, I developed a trajectory table for the load using the ShootersCalculator trajectory calculator. You can get a box of the Federal load mentioned above for $100. For a given load, the formula is: KPS at y yards = (Impact Energy at y yards) x (sectional density x cross-sectional area), or simply: My judgment is that an adequate KPS value for hunting deer and similar Class 2 game is KPS 15. . This decision to spec the cartridge for a moderate pressure limit caused it to come to grief a quarter century later. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Not surprisingly, shooters flocked to the new fast cartridges, especially the .243 Winchester. That old gun shot lights out. ), 200 yard KPS = 17.7 (Energy = 1371 ft. I do this because I do not endorse shooting at game animals at ranges beyond the MPBR of the load in question. Roberts, in his initial attempt in designing this new cartridge, wanted Thus, the 100 yard KPS of this load is: This is merely an example, as KPS can be calculated for any range. Never had an accuracy issue with mine. fps and zero the rifle for 200 yards, bullet drop at 300 yards is only Through careful load development, its performance and versatility can be significantly increased. It's not a screamer and it's not a slowpoke. The issue is the throating of the round. Doesn't stretch cases like standard expander button style dies do. If (and only if) that is the case then the barrel is short (20") and the contour is very thin*. Offered in both 100- and 117-grain loads, Select handloads reached over 2,900 fps and groups were very good from the Ruger rifle. The biggest confusion, and most important issue, was whether +P cartridges could be fired safely in rifles built before the new ammunition came on the market. is 5.8 inches, a 1.25-inch difference. Try the old Roberts bullet. Its not a screamer and its not a slowpoke. of Jordan, Montana. All Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Posts: 6,857. Taurus has redesigned this sporting pistol for performance. If you are looking for a round that can do it all, the 257 Roberts is an excellent choice. I considered writing this article as an actual poemsomething like John Keats Ode to a Grecian Urn, but with more pizazz and less skill. I am shooting a 20" suppressed Ruger Hawkeye chambered in 257 Roberts. Some hunters believe that the 257 Roberts cartridge provides an excellent balance of power and accuracy, making it suitable for a variety of hunting applications. Whitetail hunting strategies for the next generation. pump it up to 3,300 fps, with the same 200-yard zero drop at 300 yards If ballistics are your only consideration, there are several other cartridges that can beat the .257 Roberts in a foot race. I surmise that development of the +P cartridge variant was an attempt to boost performance of the cartridge to velocity levels that would look better against the fast .243s. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Thats a damn shame. While it lacks the power and range of other cartridges, the 257 Roberts is a popular choice among those who value accuracy and light recoil. Well, okay, Copyright 2017 by Gary Zinn and/or chuckhawks.com. lbs. The .257 Roberts is one of those cartridges that has a storied history in cartridge development. One of Tom's all-time favorite cartridges. Most . Evaluating the killing power of a hunting bullet must be a more sophisticated exercise than simply comparing the muzzle velocities of different cartridge/load combinations. (The .243 was offered in the Winchester Model 70 and other fine rifles, while the .244 was offered in the clunky Remington Model 722.) I may hold my nose and stick with the .243. The 257 Roberts was introduced in 1934 by Remington Arms Company. For a performance comparison, lets put current .257 Roberts +P handloads next to its more modern challenger, the .25-06 Remington (1969). lbs. : Doubletap 100 gr. it to your rifle. Gunsmiths can help, but most of the time, a few relatively simple DIY steps will overcome the model's inherently finicky nature and produce admirable hunting-level accuracy. (20 inch barrel), ME 1862 ft. The cartridge was designed to be a versatile round that could be used for both hunting and target shooting. Others may find that it lacks the stopping power necessary for large game animals or that it produces too much recoil for comfortable shooting. Energy serves as a proxy for velocity in the formula and energy at the point of impact is more relevant to determining the killing effectiveness of a hunting bullet than is velocity. The original spec was a round on a short magazine but extended throat. difference in trajectory. For primers, stick to standard brands. This rifle has been in my collection for decades and has proven accurate, and neither is it finicky in regard to loads and bullets that shoot well. Swift Scirocco II, BC .384, MV 3120 f.p.s. The rifle was a Winchester XTR Featherweight that became available To my knowledge, the only currently available .257 Roberts production rifle is the Kimber 84M Hunter bolt gun. Whenever a load has a KPS = 15 range that is longer than its MPBR, I call the EKR of the load as being equal to its MPBR range. More importantly, the cartridge was specified for a mild maximum average pressure (MAP) of 45,000 CUP (a bad move). to use them for hunting. differed somewhat when it came to the subject of reloading the The quarter-bore was fashionable due to fine game performance demonstrated by the .250 Savage. lbs. this number for consistency. I concluded that the HITS system is useful only for the purpose of verifying the size/type of game for which a given cartridge and load is best suited. These new policies allow hunters to use cartridges like the .450 Bushmaster, .45-70 Govt., and .350 Legend, which have limited range Sign in to access your profile, save content and more. of recoil with a 7.5-pound rifle. Handloading the Roberts unleashes its full potential. Niedner and L.C. The Roberts was way ahead of its time and was something of a sensation. CCI BR2 primers were used, which serve to lower extreme velocity spreads and increase accuracy. By 1934, Remington legitimized the wildcat by offering rifles and factory ammunition; however, the company made several changes, including returning the shoulder angle to the 20 degrees found on the parent 7mm Mauser case. Its simply too much fun to shoot! The .257 Roberts is the Goldilocks of whitetail cartridges. That's still less than the typical 60,000 to 65,000 psi of comparable modern rifle cartridges. JSP, MV 2920 f.p.s. I had one of the early 257 when Ruger brought them out. the cartridge at this time was used only in bolt, single-shot and pump | Chuck Hawks reports that a 100-grain .257 exiting the barrel at 3,000 fps produces only 9.3 ft-lbs. What's the Perfect Trigger Pull Weight for a Hunting Rifle? As a result, I could not find .257 Roberts factory loads anywhere, and neither did my contacts at ammunition companies have any stock on hand. So, which one is the best? the Roberts (starting in 1975) in the Model 77 and later, the Ruger No. Will have to check on twist. " Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. Scopes, guns, boots and other tactical stuff in-between. The .257 Roberts has (finally) been updated to piezoelectric pressure measurements, with standard pressure loads listed at 54,000 psi while +P loads are listed at 58,000 psi. Although accuracy was not impressive, velocity was high. simply because of the Roberts conservative case volume. The Roberts offers no real handloading challenges. Improves the accuracy of cast and jacketed bullet reloads. with an 8-pound rifle, and a .30-06 produces about 20 ft.-lbs. load detailed above is a very strong one. The Roberts .25 wildcat cartridge did some nice things and became a popular wildcat, so Remington standardized it in 1934. One hundred-grain bullets from Hornady, Swift, Nosler and I also noted the zero distance of the load. The commercialized version restored the 20-degree 45-minute shoulder angle of the parent 7mm Mauser case to be the cartridge we know today. Despite the .257s ardent following, theres a reason its not as commonly chambered as other cartridges. The Roberts launched the heavier bullets about 165 fps (7 percent) slower. With advancements in powder technology, including extruded and spherical, handloaders can achieve greater velocities than previously. +P version of the cartridge. However, many rifles will permit handloaders to seat bullets to longer overall lengths to increase accuracy. Basically, he necked down the 7x57mm Mauser case to take .257 inch diameter (standard .25 caliber) bullets. lbs. Finally, it accomplishes this dual role with mild recoil, even with the heaviest loads. following year. The 87-grain and 100-grain loads were influenced by the .250 Savage, and the 117-grain load reflected the old .25-35 Winchester and .25 Remington cartridges. Judging from how the Speer phone lines lit up with Roberts reloading questions, those rifles must have sold well. If nothing else, it would have saved a lot of later confusion. commercial rifles are available. The point is that a modern lever action rifle chambered for the Roberts would be a unique option for hunters, one that I believe would be well received. Then, I rearranged the KPS formula to solve for E, with KPS set at the baseline value of 15.0 and (SD x A) = .0112 for the 100 grain .243 bullet. Model 30 bolt action. The 243 Roberts is a great cartridge for deer hunting. However, with practice and a good scope, you can extend your range out to 400 or even 500 yards. When working with the .257 Roberts and my Model 70, I choose to go that no man ever spent so much time in perfecting a cartridge as Mr. I for one limit my long-range shooting to 300 I rest my case that the .257 Roberts is the more powerful of the two cartridges for hunting deer and similar Class 2 game. There is a wide selection of .25-caliber premium big-game hunting bullets that work well in the .257 Roberts. The solid top receiver comes with Weaver type scope bases already mounted at the factory, which eliminates the need for a front sight that can catch on brush and branches. It is also noteworthy that monolithic bullets heavier than 100 grains, such as the Barnes 115-grain Triple Shock X-Bullet, will require barrels with a faster twist than the standard 1:10 that is standard on most guns chambered in .257. As to the Ruger Hawkeye I own. Ackley, the modified 257 Roberts was likely the best improved round . around .465) is an excellent choice. I believe this would be a great rifle/cartridge package for hunting deer, pronghorn and similar game. Select loads reached over 3,400 fps. the project, assisted by Townsend Whelen, A.O. I'd Google up guard screw torque for M77 UL and see what they say. No matter what i did to that gun, it was not accurate. Well, okay, maybe. Since we have looked at the short answer, we can look in depth at each cartridge like . Unlock the Benefits of Knowing Your Winchester Serial Number, Complete Buyers Guide to the Sig Sauer P228. Based on personal inspection and range testing, Chuck wrote the following summary assessment of the rifle: "The Long Ranger is an ideal woods rifle, as it has a fast, smooth, rack and pinion action with a six lug, front locking, rotary bolt. Properly -tailored handloads will group under .75 inch. rifle. It offers slightly higher velocity and energy than the standard 257 Roberts cartridge. Roberts spent on this one.. With bullets weighing 115 to 120 grains, I found seven data points where the same propellant was tested in both cartridges. Rickie Zellers grew up hunting whitetail in central Pennsylvania, and he recently purchased a .257 Roberts for his aging father. ), HITS less than 500: Small game (50 pounds or less), HITS 500 - 900: Medium game (50 - 300 pounds), HITS 900 - 1500: Large game (300 - 1500 pounds), HITS greater than 1500: Big Five & dangerous game (any weight). In 1974, The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) established a +P designation for cartridges that are loaded to higher pressures, but specifications still had to be approved by SAAMI. casually mentioned the Roberts was on the way out. Hodgdon For reloading The .257 Roberts is one of those cartridges that has a storied Partition, elk could also be on the menu! hunt out West in the fall of 1982. I said at the outset that the .257 Roberts did not deserve to be shoved into obscurity. Varget seems to be a barnburner with a 75-grain bullet, so I tried 41.0 Accuracy was around an inch; good enough to get my buck at 5.0. from a 20 inch barrel. enough for field shooting. All handloads were developed using Winchester +P cases, which due to their thicker case wall construction have less capacity than standard pressure cases. While I personally would choose a heavier bullet weight for hunting deer, I know several hunters that use this bullet on coyotes and mule deer with great success. The procedure for determining the EKR of a particular cartridge and load is fairly simple and is most easily explained by an example. A nearly 6-degree difference in shoulder angle should complicate, if not prevent, chambering and firing commercial ammo in the wildcat chamber. If youre looking for a long-range accurate caliber for varmint hunting, the 243 Winchester is a great choice. Find the cartridge pleasant to shoot and depending on the rifle very accurate for me. Noted gun and cartridge experimenter - Dr. Franklin Mann - was indeed a very important part of the .25-caliber concept. That said, I will simply refer to the cartridge and rifles chambered for it as ".257 Roberts" hereafter. Maybe it was concern over chamber variations in custom guns. It is a shame that Remington did not specify the .257 Roberts for a MAP of 50,000 CUP in the first place. I like them for other reasons, and some get lucky, but a person shouldn't expect it. Like its parent 7mm Mauser, it is well behaved, saving its surprises for the deer in its path. Still, if you need a dual-purpose cartridge that launches a heavier bullet while retaining good manners, including very manageable recoil and decent barrel life, the .257 Roberts is still a runner in my book. Kiff has developed or consulted on thousands of cartridge designs, so for him to name the .257 without second thought is no small potatoes. Perhaps if the .257 would have originally been loaded to its full potential, it would have posed notably greater competition for the .243 Winchester. distances. Interlock RN, MV 2350 f.p.s. I ve used a 25/06 for over 30 years and love it, but i keep it right at 3000-2920 with Sierra 117. The action is extremely strong. There is no shortage of .25-caliber Handloaders can load the full gamut of bullet weights enjoyed by early factory ammunition. So, which one is the best? It has a muzzle velocity of over 3000 feet per second, and can easily take down game at long range. Detachable, steel sling swivel studs and a contoured, effective recoil pad are standard equipment. lbs., MPBR = 265 yards (zero at 225 yards). The .257 Roberts. In (22 inch barrel), ME 2162 ft. (20 inch bbl. Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301. The .257 Roberts is a fine deer cartridge that offers long barrel life, accuracy, moderate recoil and muzzle report. The .243 Win. 100 grain flatbase MAY be ok. New Ruger. Free shipping for many products! In naming the cartridge, Remington gave proper credit to its inventor by calling it the .257 Roberts. Other than the stock being carefully bedded to minimize barrel vibration and the trigger pull reduced, it is original. It is truly a hunting rifle i.e. The Roberts became parent to one of the best-known wildcats of all time: the .257 Roberts Ackley Improved. If youre looking for something with even more power, the 264 Winchester Magnum is a great choice. The 257 Roberts is a reliable cartridge that is known for its accuracy and versatility. My uncle had a custom built that he used for varmints. summer woodchucks to bigger game out West, I found this cartridge Winchester does not presently list Learn more here: http://bit.ly/1G7xXag. I call this the "baseline" KPS value for deer cartridges and loads.
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