Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. You don't know what's going on. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? lewis structure for ch2cl. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. They peaked in . We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. Part II. John you're on the air. I think that you probably are. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. Give today. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Get your tickets today and one for fifty dollars or six for 150 at NH PR and board. I mean they're a survivor. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. Thank you. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. Based on this blurry photo and pawprints, DEEP confirmed it was likely a mountain lion. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. They sent it already. The last catamount in Vermont is finally, officially, certainly dead. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. In Vermont, it was 1881. Kansas officials think a mountain lion recently roamed through Shawnee County. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. What do you think that. What's going on. Tim Yeah. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. Thank you. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Right. They are the same thing. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. For evidence of a free-roaming, wild and native mountain lion, we must look back to 1874. This is a list of known or suspected fatal cougar attacks that occurred in North America by decade in chronological order. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. No that's a little bit outside the range. Caller: Are probably. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. There was a lot of DNA evidence. Mountain lion or cat running across. If so that's for us as an agency. The next week, on June 11, the cat was hit and killed by an SUV on the Wilbur Cross Parkway in Milford. "Of those three to five reports, one. Peter Biello: Well yeah. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. Sam Evans Brown. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. I found a second scat scent both to him. This is the exchange. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. And the cougar embodies that. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal . It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. I have one that's more elaborate than that. Have you seen one. But but I've also seen it cited the opposite way that look they're very secretive. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. So. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. On June 9 2021 I saw a Mountain Lion along the Connecticut river in Clarksville New Hampshire . Caller: Yeah. The last wild mountain lion in New Hampshire may have been killed in the White Mountains in 1885. John thanks. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. The last known mountain lion killed in New Hampshire is displayed at the Woodman Museum in Dover. Peter Biello: Hmm. They don't know the direction they're going. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. Rick van de Poll: Yes. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Caller: Absolutely. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Thanks for your call. So it's there was no question in my mind. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. The sightings have not been confirmed; in fact, there have been no confirmed mountain lion sightings in New Hampshire since one was shot and killed on the seacoast in the 1850s, said Patrick Tate . Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. Or years or so. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. For all the men out there that don't realize it. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Phone number 1 800. After apparently trying unsuccessfully to get the young lion to leave, the man decided to shoot it. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. Caller: It had just left that field and was out. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. State officials confirmed the presence of a mountain lion near the Quabbin Reservoir in the late 1990s. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. The next day I crossed the river and took pictures of a paw print he left behind . So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. Well they are the same. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. That's pretty elaborate. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. Artculos cientficos; Artculos de divulgacin; Menu No doubt in my mind it was. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. I'll send it to you. It was a 3:45 pm on the east side of the river . So they're scary. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. Seems reasonable! And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. #4. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. That's too big for Bobcat. The evidence for the 1874 cougar is so hard that it's held in a display case in the State Museum of . No I saw a camel. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. A young male cougar weighing about 40 pounds was shot and killed this week near Whiteclay, Nebraska. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. Can we go to the site. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. He was just walking along the river then went up into the woods . There's always been physical evidence to prove those situations like hair or fur scat hair prints pictures of the animal print scat hair. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. Share. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Something along those lines. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. Join as a sustainer and support independent local news for your community. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. The experts' take on what happened last Saturday when a mountain lion killed one cyclist and injured another outside of Seattle. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. Your support makes this news available to everyone. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. Absolutely. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. Well let's talk a little bit about that. The one confirmed case, sometimes referred to as the " Connecticut Mountain Lion " happened in June 2011 when an SUV struck and killed a cougar in Milford. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. So take care of this problem. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. 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